三个朋友，三座城市一场关于 AI 时代的长谈Three Friends, Three CitiesOne Long Conversation About the Age of Intelligence

three friends · three cities · one long conversation

我们是三位牛津 MBA 同窗，相识相交二十载。十多年前，我们的秉烛长谈从科技开始，慢慢延伸到商业、投资、管理，以及这个时代正在发生的深层变化。

We are three Oxford MBA classmates who have been friends for twenty years. A decade ago, when all three of us were living in Shanghai, we began the kind of conversation we are still having today. We talked over breakfast. We talked late into the night. We talked technology. We talked business. We talked about the future. The conversations would go on and on until those “big brain” moments arrived, leaving all three of us entertained, educated, and enlightened. That is why we have called ourselves 大头 (dàtóu) ever since: “big brains” in meaning, “big heads” in literal translation. (And yes, we are fans of Nelson “Big Head” Bighetti of HBO’s Silicon Valley.)

播客《大头会》，就是我们聊了十多年的那场对话——现在打开了麦克风。

Our podcast, datou.fm (大头会), is a continuation of that very same dialogue and spirit, a decade on.

《大头会》（datou.fm）是一档中文圆桌播客，由三位相识二十年的朋友主持，聊 AI 时代的公司与人。

Datou FM (大头会) is a Mandarin-language roundtable podcast about the companies and people of the AI era, hosted by three friends in three cities.

单集内容Episodes

All episodes are recorded in Mandarin

007｜马斯克是对的，但最先跨过鸿沟的不是Robotaxi | 对话牛津校友刘煜冬 007 Musk Is Right, but Robotaxis Weren’t the First to Cross the Chasm In Conversation with Oxford Alum Dr. Yudong Liu

马斯克是对的，但最先跨过鸿沟的不是Robotaxi | 对话牛津校友刘煜冬

EP. 007 刘煜冬Yudong Liu 2026

“Elon 关于无人驾驶的承诺，最后总会兑现”，刘煜冬博士说，“只是常常迟到。”而就在全世界等待 Robotaxi 的这些年里，无人驾驶最先在另一个地方变成了一门跨越鸿沟的生意：露天矿坑，渗透率已经超过 15%。作为易控智驾的董事会秘书，刘煜冬在今年 7 月刚陪同公司完成港交所敲钟上市。本期节目，我们从牛津划船的日子聊到无人驾驶十年间的几度起落，从技术路线的信仰之争聊到一百吨的钢铁巨兽怎么在新疆八级大风里辨认障碍物，最后落到矿区那本算得过来的账。

“Elon’s promises about self-driving always come true in the end,” says Dr. Yudong Liu. “He’s just often late.” But while the world has been waiting for robotaxis, self-driving first crossed the chasm and became a real business somewhere else entirely: China’s open-pit mines, where adoption has already topped 15%. As board secretary of EACON, a Chinese developer of self-driving systems for mining trucks, Liu was there as the company rang the bell for its Hong Kong listing this past July. In this episode, we move from his rowing days at Oxford to a decade of ups and downs in self-driving, and from the near-religious battle over technical approaches to how a 100-ton steel behemoth can detect obstacles in Xinjiang’s Force 8 winds. We end where the numbers finally add up: the economics of mining.

006｜破解生命的源代码 | 对谈牛津校友 Daniel 006 Cracking the Source Code of Life In Conversation with Oxford Alum Daniel

破解生命的源代码 | 对谈牛津校友 Daniel

EP. 006 Daniel 2026

这一期，我们请来牛津校友 Daniel 博士，现任跨国药企高管和创新负责人。从 AlphaFold 聊起：它把预测蛋白质结构这道五十年的难题，变成了一套 AI 预测系统和一个超过两亿结构的公开数据库，也摘下了诺贝尔奖；可为什么至今没有一款 AI 发现的新药获批上市？我们聊从蛋白质结构到药之间的漫长链条，聊人类能不能活到 150 岁，更聊中国创新药的崛起。当生物学世界撞上 AI 的时间表，谁先让步？从一个蛋白质的形状出发，我们最终走到了人与机器的边界。

Our guest this episode is Dr. Daniel, an Oxford alum who is now a senior executive and head of innovation at a multinational pharmaceutical company. We start with AlphaFold: it turned the 50-year-old challenge of predicting protein structures into an AI prediction system and a public database of more than 200 million structures, and earned its creators a Nobel Prize. Yet why, to this day, has no AI-discovered drug been approved? We talk about the long road from a protein’s structure to an actual medicine, whether humans can live to 150, and the rise of innovative drug development in China. When the world of biology collides with AI’s timetable, which one gives way first? Starting from the shape of a single protein, we end up at the boundary between humans and machines.

005｜人类的下一场大航海：聊聊 SpaceX 与中国商业航天 005 Humanity’s Next Age of Discovery: SpaceX and China’s Commercial Space Industry

人类的下一场大航海：聊聊 SpaceX 与中国商业航天

EP. 005 SpaceX 2026

2001 年，马斯克开始琢磨自己造火箭，全世界都觉得他疯了；2008 年 9 月，前三次发射全部爆炸，第四次点火成了生死线；2026 年，SpaceX 上市，市值直逼两万亿美元。本期节目，我们试图寻找一个更宏大的历史坐标：哥伦布与新大陆。从星链的低轨霸权到未来的“太空算力”，SpaceX正建立起近乎断代式的领先。而当大洋彼岸的样板被验证，体制内顶尖人才加速溢出，也正将中国商业航天推向破局时刻。当人类迈向多行星物种，那片星辰大海，正等待"太空经济"重新定义。

In 2001, Elon Musk started thinking about building his own rockets, and the whole world thought he was crazy. By September 2008, SpaceX’s first three launches had all exploded, and the fourth was do-or-die. In 2026, SpaceX went public, with its market value closing in on $2 trillion. In this episode, we look for a grander historical point of reference: Columbus and the New World. From Starlink’s dominance in low Earth orbit to the space-based computing still to come, SpaceX is building a lead so decisive it could mark a break between eras. And now that the model across the ocean has been proven, top talent is spilling out of China’s state-run space sector ever faster, pushing the country’s commercial space industry toward its breakthrough moment. As humanity sets out to become a multiplanetary species, the sea of stars ahead is waiting to be redefined by the space economy.

004｜当古希腊遇上人工智能 | 对谈牛津校友 Arthur 004 When Ancient Greece Meets AI In Conversation with Oxford Alum Arthur

当古希腊遇上人工智能 | 对谈牛津校友 Arthur

EP. 004 Arthur Bi 2026

一本新书，《东方视角下的希腊文明史诗》；一位故友，二十多年前的牛津同窗、前麦肯锡合伙人、历史学者 Arthur。这一期，我们先走进历史的深处：苏格拉底的“承认无知”与毕达哥拉斯的“万物皆数”，竟与今天的 AI 遥相呼应；再回到现实的浪潮：当咨询与知识生产被重塑，普通人是陷入 FOMO，还是借机活在当下？这场浪潮会不会反而把我们从“螺丝钉”的命运中彻底解放出来，去活出人生的宽度？从牛津记忆起航，穿过希腊文明，我们走向一个正在到来的 AI 世界。

Our guest is Arthur, author of the new book “The Epic of Greek Civilization: An Eastern Perspective” (in Chinese) and an old friend—our Oxford classmate from more than 20 years ago, a former McKinsey partner, and a historian. In this episode, we start deep in history: Socrates’ “I know that I know nothing” and Pythagoras’ “all is number” find surprising echoes in today’s AI, millennia later. Then we return to the wave reshaping the present: as consulting and knowledge work are transformed, do ordinary people get swept up in FOMO, or seize the chance to live in the moment? Could this wave instead free us once and for all from being cogs in the machine and let us live broader, fuller lives? Setting out from memories of Oxford and passing through ancient Greece, we move toward the AI world taking shape before us.

003｜Token 时代：聊聊 AI 的成本、能力与边界 003 The Token Era: AI’s Costs, Capabilities, and Limits

Token 时代：聊聊 AI 的成本、能力与边界

EP. 003 AI Economics 2026

本期，我们讲讲 Token（词元）。最初，我们关心的是模型能回答什么；进入 Agent 时代后，每一次任务都在消耗成千上万的 Token——这个时代的成本、能力与边界，都开始用 Token 来计量。问题变成了：每一次智能到底消耗多少成本，又创造多少价值？我们聊中国万亿级的 Token 调用，聊 Agentic coding 的真实账单，也聊 AI 的能力边界：当机器越来越擅长可计算的事情，不可计算的部分还剩下什么？这个问题，AI 自己可能答不上来。

This episode is about tokens, the units of text that AI models read and write. At first, what mattered to us was what a model could answer. In the age of AI agents, every task burns through thousands upon thousands of tokens—and the costs, capabilities, and limits of this era are all starting to be measured in tokens. The question has become: what does each burst of intelligence actually cost, and how much value does it create? We talk about China’s trillion-scale token usage, the real bill for agentic coding, and the limits of AI’s capabilities: as machines get ever better at everything that can be computed, what remains that can’t be? That is a question AI itself may not be able to answer.

002｜从濒临破产到机器人的黎明：聊聊特斯拉 002 Tesla: From the Brink of Bankruptcy to the Dawn of Robots

从濒临破产到机器人的黎明：聊聊特斯拉

EP. 002 Tesla 2026

特斯拉这家公司最值得记住的时刻，或许不是股价新高，也不是市值神话，而是 2008 年那个濒临破产的冬天—马斯克把自己最后的两千多万美金压上，在金融危机最深处，把公司从悬崖边拉了回来。我们聊那一年究竟发生了什么，聊为什么偏偏是这样一个偏执的人，能把电动车这件难事干成，也聊从汽车、自动驾驶到人形机器人，特斯拉究竟在通往哪里。一个时代还没有名字，但它已经在路上。

The moment in Tesla’s story most worth remembering may not be a record stock price or a legendary market cap. It may be the winter of 2008, when the company was on the verge of bankruptcy and Elon Musk, in the depths of the financial crisis, put his last $20 million-plus on the line and pulled the company back from the edge. We talk about what actually happened that year, why it was this famously obsessive man, of all people, who managed to make electric cars work, and where Tesla is really headed, from cars and self-driving to humanoid robots. The coming era doesn’t have a name yet, but it is already taking shape.

001｜一场关于 AGI 的十年赌局，聊聊 OpenAI 001 OpenAI: A Decade-Long Bet on AGI

一场关于 AGI 的十年赌局，聊聊 OpenAI

EP. 001 OpenAI 2026

《大头会》开篇，我们聊 OpenAI。在它 2015 年成立时，没有 Transformer，更没有 ChatGPT，但为什么是这样一家连产品方向都不清晰的创业公司，开启了今天的 AI 时代？我们坐下来，反复回到同一个词：赌性坚强。从这里出发，我们聊 Sam Altman 这个人，聊他与马斯克的渐行渐远，聊从 OpenAI 走出去的那群人，也聊 AGI 离我们究竟还有多远。十年过去，OpenAI 已经改变了世界；但这场 AGI 赌局，远未到揭晓答案的时刻。

For the opening episode of Datou FM, we talk about OpenAI. When it was founded in 2015, there was no Transformer architecture, let alone ChatGPT. So why was it this startup, one without even a clear product direction, that ushered in today’s AI era? As we talk it through, we keep coming back to the same phrase: the nerve to keep betting big. From there, we talk about Sam Altman himself, how he and Elon Musk gradually drifted apart, the people who have left OpenAI, and just how far away AGI really is. Ten years on, OpenAI has already changed the world, but the AGI bet is nowhere near settled.

on reading

读书Books

每期节目背后，都有几本一直陪着我们的书。这里是我们正在读、反复回去读、想推荐给你的那些。

Behind every episode are a few books that have kept us company along the way. These are the ones we are reading now, keep going back to, and want to put in your hands.

微信读书Read on WeRead

重来Rework

大头会推荐Recommended by Datou FM

这部推崇精简、专注与独立，颠覆传统商业管理思路的创业经典值得在AI时代被重新打开

A startup classic that champions simplicity, focus, and independence and upends conventional thinking about running a business. Worth opening again in the age of AI.

购买纸质书Buy in print

众神的家园Home of the Gods

嘉宾Arthur推荐Recommended by guest Arthur

以东方视角横跨数千年，让普通读者也能既见树木，又见森林的古希腊通史：上卷

Volume one of The Epic of Greek Civilization: An Eastern Perspective (in Chinese). A history of ancient Greece spanning thousands of years, written so the general reader can see both the forest and the trees.

购买纸质书Buy in print

列王的国度Realm of the Kings

嘉宾Arthur推荐Recommended by guest Arthur

以东方视角横跨数千年，让普通读者也能既见树木，又见森林的古希腊通史：下卷

Volume two of The Epic of Greek Civilization: An Eastern Perspective (in Chinese). A history of ancient Greece spanning thousands of years, written so the general reader can see both the forest and the trees.

微信读书Read on WeRead

自然与希腊人Nature and the Greeks

嘉宾Arthur推荐Recommended by guest Arthur

薛定谔的经典作品，在科学与人文的交汇处，回望古希腊先哲如何追问万物的本质

Schrödinger’s classic. Standing where science and the humanities meet, it looks back at how the ancient Greek thinkers asked what everything, at bottom, is made of.

first anniversary

2026.12

大头会播客一周年庆典 The Datou FM PodcastFirst Anniversary

敬请期待Details to come